here is chuck hagel in vietnam back in '68 when he went in. he was an enlisted soldier and rose to sergeant. a noncommissioned officer with the infantry, a grunt as they used to say in vietnam. this is navy pilot john mccain with his squadron in 1965 before he was captured. hagel made reference to the vantage point an enlisted man has in war. >> i saw it from the bottom. i saw what happens. i saw the consequences and the suffering and the horror of war. so i did question a surge. i always ask the question, is this going to be worth the sacrifice, because there will be sacrifice. in the surge case in iraq, we lost almost 1,200 dead americans during that surge and thousands of wounded. now, was it required? was it necessary? senator mccain has his own opinion on that shared by others. i'm not sure. i'm not that certain that it was required. >> you know, the horror of vietnam, where i wasn't -- i always point that out -- the guys who were, into the jungle, fighting an enemy you couldn't see. there were no p.o.w.s in the jungle wars. they didn't t